• Before posting an article from a specific source, check this list here to see how much the Orange Room trust it. You can also vote/change your vote based on the source track record.

Why do Arabs oppose Zionism?

Mighty Goat

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I always ask myself the question why are the Arabs the enemies of Israel and why do the Arabs deny Israel the right to exist as a state in which the Jews can call Jerusalem as their capital in the Middle East?

I would like to hear your comments, while taking into account the current discourses that run through out the region by religious groups who are demanding religious political rights, such as Christians, Sunnies and Shi’as who seemingly believe that they can have a political status because of an ethnicity that is founded on religion. They however deny the same rights to the Jews in Jerusalem.

Why do Arabs oppose Zionism, when they claim political rights that are founded on their various religious affiliations?

Why is Zionism perceived as an evil when Arabism and Islamism is not?

Why are the Zionists who grant Muslims the freedom to practice their religion are perceived to be an evil, when the Saudi Islamism that denies all religious groups the right to freely practice their belief and faith is not considered to be an evil, if anything Saudi Islamism it is a promoted good?
 
  • Advertisement
  • Abufijli

    Abufijli

    Well-Known Member
    Because zionism excludes other religions from equality. If you are not jewish in Israel you are treated like a dog, the state is built for jews and jews only. Other ideologies are not built for a certain religious group. Even Iran and Saudi Arabia are not the same as Israel.
     
    tsedek

    tsedek

    Active Member
    yeah right, in those countries the jewish population is also 20% - like here in Israel the muslim population is . . .
     
    alon

    alon

    Active Member
    Because zionism excludes other religions from equality. If you are not jewish in Israel you are treated like a dog, the state is built for jews and jews only. Other ideologies are not built for a certain religious group. Even Iran and Saudi Arabia are not the same as Israel.

    Yea right, I guess you say this as an israeli right???
    You know what? ask some israeli arabs if what you say is true...and no, don't come now with this little stories of racism in israel,
    this stories exist in any other country in the world including Lebanon, which is much more racists than israel, it behave to the Palestinians like animals and do not give them citizenship, while israel do.
     
    Lordoflebanon

    Lordoflebanon

    Well-Known Member
    Arabs

    They did peace with israel from long time
    Quatar - Iraq - Jorden - Egypts - Soon Syria
     
    H

    Highlander286

    New Member
    It's very easy. Zionism is almost a neo-colonialist movement. If the big majority of Jews who currently live in Palestine weren't European immigrants (and from elsewhere), this would've been a different situation and can be compared to Sunni, SHiite, Christian separatist aspirations in the region. But ofcourse this isn't the case.
     
    H

    Highlander286

    New Member
    the majority in israel are from arab and north african descend
    But those aren't the ones who founded modern Zionism and consequently Israel. Zionism was pretty much a purely European secular nationalist movement modelled on other European nationalist movements of the 19th century. I won't generalize over it and say it's all neo-colonialist, but that played a very big part in the movement, hence why Uganda was a serious consideration (that was narrowly defeated I believe) for a Jewish homeland. If that happened, there wouldn't have been any difference between Israel, South Africa or Australia if comparing the way they were founded.

    Second, Sephardic and North African Jews aren't exactly Palestinian natives either.
     
    H

    Holaco

    Well-Known Member
    Because zionism excludes other religions from equality
    Most Islamic countries treat non-Muslims as a second class citizen. Shouldn't we oppose those Islamic countries as well ?


    the state is built for jews and jews only.
    As far as I know there are many non-Jews who have Israeli passport
     
    Free_Patriot

    Free_Patriot

    Active Member
    I think Muslims are hostile to zionism more than Arabs in general. For Muslims religion is very important, everything since Islam is based on faith and religious practice that comes before anything else (family, nation, etc..). Because zionism is also based on a religious ethnicity, it was natural for it to come as a direct offense to Muslims who saw it as a threat and insult to their identity just because they resided in the same area where zionism is inviting the Jews to come.

    In Europe, most of the so-called anti-semitism was breeding on the Christians hate for the Jews based on the responsibility of the Jews in crucifying Jesus. However, the less religious the european were becoming, the less hostility they were having against the Jews. Similar to what's happening in the US of A these days where the Jews gained so much control and the public doesn't even care or doesn't even believe it's an issue, (and maybe it's not an issue for them I don't know)

    I think the Jews, and ironically the secular Jews too, will continue to suffer from hatred from other religious peoples just because their religion and ethnicity are mixed, I mean you can become less religious but your ethnicity is with you for good.
     
    Abufijli

    Abufijli

    Well-Known Member
    yeah right, in those countries the jewish population is also 20% - like here in Israel the muslim population is . . .


    Yea right, I guess you say this as an israeli right???
    You know what? ask some israeli arabs if what you say is true...and no, don't come now with this little stories of racism in israel,
    this stories exist in any other country in the world including Lebanon, which is much more racists than israel, it behave to the Palestinians like animals and do not give them citizenship, while israel do.
    Most Islamic countries treat non-Muslims as a second class citizen. Shouldn't we oppose those Islamic countries as well ?




    As far as I know there are many non-Jews who have Israeli passport
    The only country in the world where the state is built exclusively for a religion and that religion only is zionist Israel. A jewish person who has never been to Israel and has no ties what so ever with the land there can get a citizenship and move to Israel while a Palestinian who was kicked out of his home and has thousands of years of ties to the country can not go back. Israel is an exclusive club for Jews, that is a racist ideology based on religion.

    There is no denying that racism exists in all countries, but those countries, including KSA and Iran are not exclusive clubs for Muslims only, it is not in the Iranian or KSA's constitution that these countries are for muslims and muslims only, the constitution of these countries states that the country is for its inhabitants ie Saudi's and Iranians, no mention of the religion of the people. I as a muslim can not claim Saudi or Iranian citizenship just because I belong to the same religion.

    Israel doesn't even have a constitution, and the paper that resemles one, the bill of rights does not mention equality for all its citizens anywhere.

    If Israel was a state that all its could belong to and are treated equally in then I wouldn't have a problem with it in the first place.
     
    H

    Highlander286

    New Member
    I think Muslims are hostile to zionism more than Arabs in general. For Muslims religion is very important, everything since Islam is based on faith and religious practice that comes before anything else (family, nation, etc..). Because zionism is also based on a religious ethnicity, it was natural for it to come as a direct offense to Muslims who saw it as a threat and insult to their identity just because they resided in the same area where zionism is inviting the Jews to come.
    Obviously Islam had a big role in fueling anti-Zionism and opposition to Israel in the Arab world, but you're clearly underestimating Arab, Syrian and Palestinian nationalism and even leftists. Only recently Islam has played the clearly most prominent role in opposition to Israel. Let's not forget that some of Zionism and Israel's biggest foes were Palestinian Christians, nationalists and Marxists.

    In Europe, most of the so-called anti-semitism was breeding on the Christians hate for the Jews based on the responsibility of the Jews in crucifying Jesus. However, the less religious the european were becoming, the less hostility they were having against the Jews. Similar to what's happening in the US of A these days where the Jews gained so much control and the public doesn't even care or doesn't even believe it's an issue, (and maybe it's not an issue for them I don't know)
    That's not true at all. With the rise of European secular extreme nationalism in the 19th and 20th century, Jews were even in more danger than before, especially after a period of emancipation after the Enlightenment. The hate stayed after religion got weaker and it was justified on new grounds (ultra-nationalist), and probably it was even more fatal, hence the Holocaust. The US is a totally different issue, cause nationalism there isn't much of a factor.
     
    tsedek

    tsedek

    Active Member
    The only country in the world where the state is built exclusively for a religion and that religion only is zionist Israel. A jewish person who has never been to Israel and has no ties what so ever with the land there can get a citizenship and move to Israel while a Palestinian who was kicked out of his home and has thousands of years of ties to the country can not go back. Israel is an exclusive club for Jews, that is a racist ideology based on religion.

    There is no denying that racism exists in all countries, but those countries, including KSA and Iran are not exclusive clubs for Muslims only, it is not in the Iranian or KSA's constitution that these countries are for muslims and muslims only, the constitution of these countries states that the country is for its inhabitants ie Saudi's and Iranians, no mention of the religion of the people. I as a muslim can not claim Saudi or Iranian citizenship just because I belong to the same religion.

    Israel doesn't even have a constitution, and the paper that resemles one, the bill of rights does not mention equality for all its citizens anywhere.

    If Israel was a state that all its could belong to and are treated equally in then I wouldn't have a problem with it in the first place.


    Israel, ever since it's existence is practically and officially a state at war (being that it is not accepted by m99% of it's neighbor (Islamic) states) - so the judgment of racism here mingles in with the precautions for a state in wartime (defending its existence) -

    once Israel is accepted by its surrounding (Islamic) neighbors, you can judge with the norms you judge any other state not at war.

    till now - Israel hasn't even had one chance to prove itself. and still: the personal freedom in this country - ALSO for other religions - is in practice 100% equal to that of judaism.
     
    NASR_MIN_ALLAH

    NASR_MIN_ALLAH

    Active Member
    because zionism opposes arabs and muslims and so on
     
    Fragrance of Roses

    Fragrance of Roses

    Well-Known Member
    I always ask myself the question why are the Arabs the enemies of Israel and why do the Arabs deny Israel the right to exist as a state in which the Jews can call Jerusalem as their capital in the Middle East?
    The answer is very simple: The Arabs were figuratively castrated by Israel, and still have not gotten over the shock and shame of it. It has deeply bothered them, and this is why they will never have the gutts or the will to stand up and face the fact that they lost their war against Israel in a mere number of days. They lost the war, but they do not want to acknowledge their defeat because they are not brave enough or men enough to do that... remember: they are castrated.

    They do not want Israel to establish a country and have Jerusalem as its capital because they want the Palestinians off their backs. They hate the Palestinians as much as they hate the Israelies, but they never acknowledge this fact.

    Israel, to the Arabs, is this Phallus that is always threatening to overpower them. They feel that by remaining to be the throne that is pricking it, Israel will not castrate them again. Any promising figure who rises and promises to regain Arab pride is treated as a hero: El masee7 el mukhallis. Their psychological issues are bigger and worse than anyone could comprehend, yet curable because they are dumb and forget easily.

    I am not saying that the Israelies do not have psychological issues themselves which are rendering the abused an abuser, but I am simply talking about the Arabic side here. Do not get me started on the rest (including the Iranians who by the way, have a banner on a building in Tehran commemorating a Shiite martyr and Jewish martyr, but no Sunni martyr--this is how discriminatory they are. I saw this picture in a conference on discrimination).
     
    Fragrance of Roses

    Fragrance of Roses

    Well-Known Member
    Even Iran and Saudi Arabia are not the same as Israel.
    Ooooo! Be careful! In Iran, Sunnies are denied building a mosque in Tehran! They are forbidden from praying in a place of their own! The Iranians are not only discriminating against others, they are discriminating against other Muslims! How intolerant!
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Zionism is the concept that focuses on Zion being Jerusalem as the center point of return of the Jews to the Zion where King David established the first kingdom, and was ordered by God to be sovereign over the Jews. Zion is the center in which Solomon the son of David built the temple.

    Zionism is not a political theory of the nation and the state. There is no such a thing as the Zionist structure of government. Zionism is a concept that is rooted in the idea of the return of the Jews to the center of their establishment as a state by King David.

    Following the institutionalization of the nation-states by the League of Nations, Jewish nationalists brought conceptions about the Jewish nation in order to fit the parameters of the nation-state. In this case the Jews being a nation was the criteria that was to establish the Jewish state in Israel. Jewish nationalism cannot be mistaken with Zionism, even though these two concepts have become intertwined in a very complex manner following the institutionalization of the state of Israel within the parameters of the nation-state as institutionalized by the League of Nations, and then followed by the United Nations.

    Then the question is why are the Israeli Jews denied a right to establish a capital called Jerusalem and based on their historical ties to Jerusalem, when The Saudi Wahabies have taken control of Mecca, and assumed the position of the custodians of Mecca.

    In Saudi Arabia, Christians and Jews are denied the right of passage to Mecca. That is they are prohibited from visiting Mecca by law. In Israel, the three religions historic ties to Jerusalem are recognized, since the Muslims have all the right to worship and pray in their mosques as freely as they can.

    In Saudi Arabia, those who do not adhere to the Sunni-Doctrine of Islam are denied the right to work in public office, this category includes the Shi’a. Saudi Arabia is an extremist exclusivist concept of government that adheres to a rigid dogma that it calls government, where the King can kill any one and as he wishes. It is a lawless society run by the whims of the king, who claims to be the custodian of the holy places.

    Then the facts attest that it is the Muslims and not the Jews who are exclusivists, and restrictive about who can have the freedom to practice their religion within their territories.

    The Palestinians, who are similar to the Saudis claim that Jerusalem is Muslim and Arab, and that the Jews have no right to establish anything in Jerusalem!

    So, what do Arabs and Sunnies have in Jerusalem that makes them claim a right in there that the Jews do not have.

    Do the Arabs want to turn Jerusalem into another Mecca, where a king plays God on Earth and decides who can worship God or how?
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Because zionism excludes other religions from equality. If you are not jewish in Israel you are treated like a dog, the state is built for jews and jews only. Other ideologies are not built for a certain religious group. Even Iran and Saudi Arabia are not the same as Israel.
    Iran is not the same as Saudi Arabia, In Iran there are Jews and they have rights in the state. Can you show me the Jews of Medina, where are they do you think?

    Let us be realistic, in Israel there are a lot on non Jewish dogs who are in government, they are Israelis and they are not Jews, they hold a place in government and they are existing. and are practicing their civil and political rights.

    In Saudi, only one brand of Islam is recognized and that is the Sunnies and only the Sunnies who agree explicitly with the Salaf. Everyone else is an infidel. save Christians and Jews, who are propbably the lost on Earth.

    Can you give me the name of one Saudi Christian or Jew, actually if someone dares to convert in Saudi the King, has the right to behead him.

    In Saudi the King is Maleke Youm El Din. I think this comes in the first verse in the Koran describing God, but not in Saudi. In Saudi the King is God.
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    It's very easy. Zionism is almost a neo-colonialist movement. If the big majority of Jews who currently live in Palestine weren't European immigrants (and from elsewhere), this would've been a different situation and can be compared to Sunni, SHiite, Christian separatist aspirations in the region. But ofcourse this isn't the case.
    I would like to focus on Saudi and maybe you can explain how Saudi is not an exclusivist and racist state. They started their state by expelling Koraish (the Hashemites) from Mecca, the place where Koraish historically and religiously originated. All that was done in the aspiration of being the God-King Maleke Youm Eldin.

    Why do you think that Arab Muslims are actively promoting the idea that Israel is a colonizing state, the joke is that the Jews of Israel are claimed to be colonizing Jerusalem, the Kingdome of Judah, which is the Kingdome of the Jews.

    The Arab states while spending all their energy on babbling about colonialism and Zionism fail through the same discourse to see the hypocrisy by which they run their own states.

    I mean don't you feel that you want to laugh when you hear Arabs demanding Palestinian rights, when non of these Arab states have even a human rights commission institutionalized in their states, that none of the Arabs states has something to call a bill of rights. No one that is called an Arab state grants the people the freedom of religion, and finally most of the Arab states institutionalize various restrictions on freedoms and rights.

    Can you see the hypocrisy of dictators asking for rights, and liberty for the Palestinians when they the dictators deny their own people the right to freely choose their governments?

    The real issue at hand is the issue of people and government. These are the people who want to live a decent life under a government, a government that respects the people- and regardless to the religion or origin of the people who are in government or in the state. This is the real issue at hand.

    The issue in here is not a theoretical argument of post-World War I discourses that rotated around colonies and colonizers, a discourse that carried on following WWII into decolonization and self-determination. This discourse of intellectuals is a discourse that did not relate to the reality of the history of migration, rather it related to a momentum that existed during that era of history and intellectual discourse that used generalized terminologies to capitalize on the momentum of “colony”.


    As for this concept of colony and colonization, I personally think that there is no such a thing as colonizers being a negative idea of migrations and settlement. The history of the world is built around migrants who settle in various lands and empires who assimilated lands which they conquered. This global history also includes the Arabs who established their empires over other people's land, they also migrated, assimilated, and settled over other people’s lands.

    The world and its people are not static where people lived somewhere since time immemorial and were stuck in there. We are all settlers or the descendents of settlers in one way or another. Except for the Saudis they were there since the beginning of creation.
     
    Mighty Goat

    Mighty Goat

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    I think Muslims are hostile to zionism more than Arabs in general. For Muslims religion is very important, everything since Islam is based on faith and religious practice that comes before anything else (family, nation, etc..). Because zionism is also based on a religious ethnicity, it was natural for it to come as a direct offense to Muslims who saw it as a threat and insult to their identity just because they resided in the same area where zionism is inviting the Jews to come.

    In Europe, most of the so-called anti-semitism was breeding on the Christians hate for the Jews based on the responsibility of the Jews in crucifying Jesus. However, the less religious the european were becoming, the less hostility they were having against the Jews. Similar to what's happening in the US of A these days where the Jews gained so much control and the public doesn't even care or doesn't even believe it's an issue, (and maybe it's not an issue for them I don't know)

    I think the Jews, and ironically the secular Jews too, will continue to suffer from hatred from other religious peoples just because their religion and ethnicity are mixed, I mean you can become less religious but your ethnicity is with you for good.
    So can you please define who is the hostile Muslim and who is the friendly Arab to Zionism. Since I am sure that the Bosnian Muslims are not that hostile to the Jews, they happen to be non-Arab Muslims, the same is not true for the Pakistanies for example.

    Besides, the Christian Orthodox from various regions including Arab states such as Lebanon and Syria are very hostile to the Jews when they are neither Muslims nor Arabs.
     
    Top