• Before posting an article from a specific source, check this list here to see how much the Orange Room trust it. You can also vote/change your vote based on the source track record.

Why do Arabs oppose Zionism?

Abufijli

Abufijli

Well-Known Member
Ghandi never ceases to amaze me with his great words....
 
  • Advertisement
  • proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    I agree, Ghandi was a great man.

    What puzzles me though is the fact that while he believed that India must be free of colonizers and Hindus must exercise their right of self determination he denied the same right to Jews.

    Very strange indeed.
     
    Abufijli

    Abufijli

    Well-Known Member
    I agree, Ghandi was a great man.

    What puzzles me though is the fact that while he believed that India must be free of colonizers and Hindus must exercise their right of self determination he denied the same right to Jews.

    Very strange indeed.
    I do not find that strange at all, he is looking at jews the way they should be looked at, a religious group not a nation. French jews are french, American jews are american etc....

    The only problem with the jewish state is that it displaced other people in its creation.
     
    alon

    alon

    Active Member

    Ghandi on Palestine

    My sympathies are all with the Jews. I have known them intimately in South Africa. Some of them became life-long companions. Through these friends I came to learn much of their age-long persecution. They have been the untouchables of Christianity. The parallel between their treatment by Christians and the treatment of untouchables by Hindus is very close. Religious sanction has been invoked in both cases for the justification of the inhuman treatment meted out to them. Apart from the friendships, therefore, there is the more common universal reason for my sympathy for the Jews.

    But my sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice. The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the Jews have hankered after return to Palestine. Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood?

    Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and in-human to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home.

    The nobler course would be to insist on a just treatment of the Jews wherever they are born and bred. The Jews born in France are French in precisely the same sense that Christians born in France are French. If the Jews have no home but Palestine, will they relish the idea of being forced to leave the other parts of the world in which they are settled? Or do they want a double home where they can remain at will? This cry for the national home affords a colourable justification for the German expulsion of the Jews.

    I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regarded as an unwarrantable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.

    Let the Jews who claim to be the chosen race prove their title by choosing the way of non-violence for vindicating their position on earth. Every country is their home including Palestine not by aggre-ssion but by loving service. A Jewish friend has sent me a book called The Jewish Contribution to Civilization by Cecil Roth. It gives a record of what the Jews have done to enrich the world’s literature, art, music, drama, science, medicine, agriculture, etc. Given the will, the Jew can refuse to be treated as the outcaste of the West, to be despised or patronized. He can command the attention and respect of the world by being man, the chosen creation of God, instead of being man who is fast sinking to the brute and forsaken by God. They can add to their many contributions the surpassing contribution of non-violent action.

    SEGAON, November 20, 1938
    Harijan, 26-11-1938

    The funny thing in this words is the date...Look at the date, November 20, 1938, in another "non-violence" year the jews will get their award on their non-violence behavior, they will be killed like sheeps, they will go to the chambers and will not believe how does it happen? "We are not violence, don't we? So why? Why do we get this punishment? We tried to be good germans, good Polish, good french, we have never unite for a revolution, on the contrary, we served in the army, we opposed zionsim because it is too nationalistic and remove us from our goal, to be equal citizens, to be Germans, Polish, French...Why does it happen? and then, when we will sit in Auswitz we won't say nothing, except of some zionists in Warsaw we will sit and wait for our death, some of us will be saved by the mercy of the Goyim, some of us will bribe other , some of us will succeed to run away, but most of us will die, and will burn...until the last days of the war...
    So with all of the respect to Gandi, and I have a lot of respect to this man, We won't trust on other people mercy again if you like it or not, NEVER AGAIN isn't a Hollywoodian cliche for me, NEVER AGAIN is the whole purpose in the state of israel.
     
    fidelio

    fidelio

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    The funny thing in this words is the date...Look at the date, November 20, 1938, in another "non-violence" year the jews will get their award on their non-violence behavior, they will be killed like sheeps, they will go to the chambers and will not believe how does it happen? "We are not violence, don't we? So why? Why do we get this punishment? We tried to be good germans, good Polish, good french, we have never unite for a revolution, on the contrary, we served in the army, we opposed zionsim because it is too nationalistic and remove us from our goal, to be equal citizens, to be Germans, Polish, French...Why does it happen? and then, when we will sit in Auswitz we won't say nothing, except of some zionists in Warsaw we will sit and wait for our death, some of us will be saved by the mercy of the Goyim, some of us will bribe other , some of us will succeed to run away, but most of us will die, and will burn...until the last days of the war...
    So with all of the respect to Gandi, and I have a lot of respect to this man, We won't trust on other people mercy again if you like it or not, NEVER AGAIN isn't a Hollywoodian cliche for me, NEVER AGAIN is the whole purpose in the state of israel.
    So you go and do in Ramallah what the Nazis did to you in Auswitz?
     
    alon

    alon

    Active Member
    So you go and do in Ramallah what the Nazis did to you in Auswitz?
    No, never, and if I will find one man who do 1% from what the nazis did in Aushwitz I will do all what I can to send him into the jail.
    What I meant is that Ghandi say all the time about the right of the jews to live equally, and he say also that the jew are not race, well one year after I'm sure he noticed that he was wrong...The jews are a nation, and they have right to live peacfully, and equally like any other nation on Earth, like Lebanese, like Palestinians, like french and like Germans...the problem is that in the past they thought that they are not a nation, and they were wrong...Then, most of them understood what was their mistake and came to israel, which it is a legal state for the jews, and if you think that israel is illigal, what you do is to undermine the UN...And I can do the same and say that your state is illigal, and the Lebanese have no right to live in a state of their own.
     
    tsedek

    tsedek

    Active Member
    I do not find that strange at all, he is looking at jews the way they should be looked at, a religious group not a nation. French jews are french, American jews are american etc....

    The only problem with the jewish state is that it displaced other people in its creation.
    ahhh so they're only a 'people' for discrimination purposes? hitler didn't hesitate one moment to select and kill those 'french', 'germans', "spaniards", "dutch", "polish", "austrians", "hungarians", "italians", "swedes", "norwegians", "belgians", "rumanians"... do you want me to go on??
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    ahhh so they're only a 'people' for discrimination purposes? hitler didn't hesitate one moment to select and kill those 'french', 'germans', "spaniards", "dutch", "polish", "austrians", "hungarians", "italians", "swedes", "norwegians", "belgians", "rumanians"... do you want me to go on??
    And Nazis could do it simply examining external features of individual. Suspicion based solely on looks. And some say there is no such thing as Jewish nation, just religion.
     
    Shangleesh

    Shangleesh

    New Member
    I agree, Ghandi was a great man.

    What puzzles me though is the fact that while he believed that India must be free of colonizers and Hindus must exercise their right of self determination he denied the same right to Jews.

    Very strange indeed.
    You are one confused man.

    Ghandi didn't deny anybody anything, he said they had no right to impose themselves on a people and on a country that doesn't belong to them.

    He said India must be free from colonizers so why would he support the colonization of Palestine by foriegn Europeans.

    He supported Hindus self-determination in and this is very important THEIR country, he didn't support Hindu self-determination on another peoples land.

    Do you see the difference or are you just playing the dumb ignorant american for our pleasure?
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Shangleesh says:

    <i>"You are one confused man."</i>

    This is possible.


    <i>"Ghandi didn't deny anybody anything, he said they had no right to impose themselves on a people and on a country that doesn't belong to them."</i>

    If this is not denial I do not know what is.

    Like I said before, it does not matter what you or I believe. Reality is that Jews got some of their land back.

    As to the rest of it. Well, Jews will have to learn to live with disappointment.


    <i>"He said India must be free from colonizers so why would he support the colonization of Palestine by foriegn Europeans.

    He supported Hindus self-determination in and this is very important THEIR country, he didn't support Hindu self-determination on another peoples land."</i>

    So Israel has freed itself from colonization or in process of doing it at very least.

    I am very much surprised by Gandhi's blindness.


    <i>"Do you see the difference or are you just playing the dumb ignorant american for our pleasure?"</i>

    You do not sound pleased but if you say you are I must be doing something right. Or may be you are just confused?
     
    Abufijli

    Abufijli

    Well-Known Member
    And Nazis could do it simply examining external features of individual. Suspicion based solely on looks. And some say there is no such thing as Jewish nation, just religion.
    ahhh so they're only a 'people' for discrimination purposes? hitler didn't hesitate one moment to select and kill those 'french', 'germans', "spaniards", "dutch", "polish", "austrians", "hungarians", "italians", "swedes", "norwegians", "belgians", "rumanians"... do you want me to go on??
    So are jews a race? Why are there different coloured jews, such as black african jews, european jews, middle eastern jews? How can they all belong to the same race?

    What about a person who wishes to become jewsih? A convert, will he be accepted as jew since his ancestors are not jewsih, and he is not of the jewsih race?

    Jews are a religious group. FULL STOP....
     
    tsedek

    tsedek

    Active Member
    So are jews a race? Why are there different coloured jews, such as black african jews, european jews, middle eastern jews? How can they all belong to the same race?

    What about a person who wishes to become jewsih? A convert, will he be accepted as jew since his ancestors are not jewsih, and he is not of the jewsih race?

    Jews are a religious group. FULL STOP....
    That's the most beautiful thing about jews: they consist of all races. However the most prevailing common binder is that children born to jewish mother are jewish and this going on for over 5000 years, and thus has created a PEOPLE (not to be mistaken with 'race') - Capisce? :smile:
     
    Abufijli

    Abufijli

    Well-Known Member
    That's the most beautiful thing about jews: they consist of all races. However the most prevailing common binder is that children born to jewish mother are jewish and this going on for over 5000 years, and thus has created a PEOPLE (not to be mistaken with 'race') - Capisce? :smile:
    So if I become convinced today that the jewish religion is the correct path and decide to follow it I will not be able to because my mother was not jewish?
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    So if I become convinced today that the jewish religion is the correct path and decide to follow it I will not be able to because my mother was not jewish?
    Let me try it again.

    There are two ways person may become Jewish.

    On is to be born of Jewish mother, another is to convert.

    I hope you got it this time.
     
    tsedek

    tsedek

    Active Member
    So if I become convinced today that the jewish religion is the correct path and decide to follow it I will not be able to because my mother was not jewish?
    Let me try it again.

    There are two ways person may become Jewish.

    On is to be born of Jewish mother, another is to convert.

    I hope you got it this time.
    That's the answer, Abufijli. whether 'outsiders' (meaning non-jews) accept it or not :wink:
     
    A

    arbre

    Active Member
    The funny thing in this words is the date...Look at the date, November 20, 1938, in another "non-violence" year the jews will get their award on their non-violence behavior, they will be killed like sheeps, they will go to the chambers and will not believe how does it happen? "We are not violence, don't we? So why? Why do we get this punishment? We tried to be good germans, good Polish, good french, we have never unite for a revolution, on the contrary, we served in the army, we opposed zionsim because it is too nationalistic and remove us from our goal, to be equal citizens, to be Germans, Polish, French...Why does it happen? and then, when we will sit in Auswitz we won't say nothing, except of some zionists in Warsaw we will sit and wait for our death, some of us will be saved by the mercy of the Goyim, some of us will bribe other , some of us will succeed to run away, but most of us will die, and will burn...until the last days of the war...
    So with all of the respect to Gandi, and I have a lot of respect to this man, We won't trust on other people mercy again if you like it or not, NEVER AGAIN isn't a Hollywoodian cliche for me, NEVER AGAIN is the whole purpose in the state of israel.
    i know it's off-topic, but I just can't read this. Why you put Germans, Polish and French in the same line? And polish even before french !
     
    alon

    alon

    Active Member
    i know it's off-topic, but I just can't read this. Why you put Germans, Polish and French in the same line? And polish even before french !
    LOL, What is the problem in putting Germans, Polish and French in the same line? Be more specific...
     
    Shangleesh

    Shangleesh

    New Member
    That's the answer, Abufijli. whether 'outsiders' (meaning non-jews) accept it or not :wink:
    So don't you think it is absurd that anybody who converts to Judaism can go and apply for citizenship of Israel when Palestinians are not able to return to their homes?

    What gives a foreign person the right to settle in Palestine, their religion? Because somebody was born or converted to Judaism they should automatically be allowed to be citizens on a land that doesn't belong to them?

    Israel is the only country in the world that grants citizenship based on religion, that is why it is a sectarian country and not secular at all and discriminates against its muslim and christian citizens who are not able to bring their co-religionist to become citizens of Israel.

    So a christian man cannot become an Israeli citizen but if he converts than he can, what is the difference, this man is the same man whether his religion was christian or Jewish, he is still from whatever country he comes from and has no right to settle in Palestine.

    Saying that only Jews can become citizens is like America saying only white people can become citizens. This is called discrimination.

    How about somebody who was Jewish but converted (forcefully or voluntarilly) to another religion, isn't that person still Jewish if Jews are a people and not solely a religion?

    Another question, what if a woman converts to Judaism and is accepted does that make her kids Jewish?

    It doesn't make sense if she was a gentile who converted, her DNA is the same, it didn't magically change when she converted, why would she or her kids be considered Jewish if they really aren't?

    The sad thing is that the Palestinians would have more rights to their land if they all converted to Judaism than they do now, even though they are the same people, with the same history and with the same DNA but because they converted to the Jewish faith than they can become citizens of Israel.
     
    Top