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Discussion in 'Lebanese Politics and Breaking News' started by manifesto, Oct 15, 2016.
B2oss 2eede iza t3allamet shi from the past inta!
Then cut it.
Alot was learnt and mistakes both sides committed. Nchalla it doesn't happen again but no one knows as we are from a volatile region.
I dont think what U say is Realistic.
The Christians lost the war and what we live today is the Consequence.
Date: April 13, 1975
4 Palestinian Fedayins killed 4 persons in front of Notre-Dame de la Délivrance Church.
The victims were: Joseph Abou Assi, Antoine Husseini, Dib Assaf and Salman Abou Khater
Then, as “a response”, the “Bus massacre” happened.
The Damour massacres started on January 9, 1976.
The Karantina massacres started on January 18, 1976.
Who should retaliate?
Yes, Newton’s Third Law: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
A lot of young Christians are brain washed to repeat the Arabist/Muslim/Leftist version of the Events.
New evidence that then came to light seems to confirm that they were not Palestinian feday' but actually members of the Syrian Social Nationalist Party or SSNP, a rival Lebanese multi-confessional, pan-Syrian right-wing organization. The SSNP carried out the action in retaliation for the brutal clamp-down on their militants following their abortive coup attempt in the turn of 1961–62,orchestrated by the then Interior Minister Pierre Gemayel.
And besides the victims you mentioned were Kataeb militants not children.
Regardless what the PLO's agenda was in the 70s (some claim that they wanted to replace Palestine with Lebanon and Lebanese Christians were under existential threat - personally I do not believe either to be true), the grassroots Palestinian refugee motivation to return from Lebanon to Palestine was very real, and the source of a strategical common interest with the Lebanese Christians.
Failure to collude to further this common interest, and instead waging a self destructive war is a strategic blunder of the highest order, one that Lebanese and Palestinians alike are still paying for today. You can call this going full retard.
Feel free to throw blame left and right, who "started", what went wrong exactly where and who's red lines were more valid or more blatantly crossed... these are details in light of the bigger picture above.
There is a valid view point where the casualties from each sides could be called "martyrs"... I don't see a point in denying one viewpoint or another. Personally I prefer to call both victims. "Martyr" implies it was done in the service of a noble cause, not fitting for an episode of going full retard.
Even though SSNP "jesmon labbis", where is that "new evidence" that Wikipedia is hiding from us? any name? Source?
Ah, eza Kataeb militants, it's okay, bassita.
Enno it was a tit-for-tat between militants. They should have retaliated by seeking legal action, or in the worst case scenario, by killing other SSNP militants, not by massacring innocent civilians.
Whoever told you this is lying right to your face!
It is well known that the Karantina massacre took place on Jan 18 and the Damour massacre two days after on Jan 20th.
And the casualties of the Karantina massacre were way higher compared to Damour massacre.
it is never okay but one can understand two militants who are in war and enemies killing each others but to revenge the killings of their dead militants on civilians is another!
Black Saturday is good example of what people were dealing with!
The Kataeb is nothing to be proud over neither are the PLO.
From your source:
"Although most PLO accounts refute this version of the events by describing the bus passengers as civilian families' victims of an unprovoked attack and not fully armed guerrillas, Abd al-Rahim Ahmad of the ALF did confirm years later that some of them were off-duty members of that faction."
و شهد شاهد من أهلهم
So, they were not SSNPers, and certainly were not "civilian families".
In 1971, when King Hussein of Jordan massacred 3500 Palestinians (including civilians) nobody spoke about "innocent civilians" being massacred.
Don't rewrite history you filthy sectarian bigot
Quoted from J. Becker "The PLO" :
"...On 9 January 1976, three days after Epiphany, the priest of Damour Father Mansour Labaky, was carrying out a Maronite custom of blessing the houses with holy water...."
"In the siege that had been established on 9 January the Palestinians cut off food and water supplies and refused to allow the Red Cross to take out the wounded. Infants and children died of dehydration. Only three more townspeople were killed as a result of PLO fire between the first night and the last day, 23 January. But on that day, when the final onslaught came, hundreds of the Christians were killed."
Those were your sources.
The butthurt has commenced it seems
Not according to Abdel Rahim Ahmad.
War is ugly, nothing to be proud of, but the road to Palestine was not in Ain el Remmaneh, on a sunday, in front of a church.
Well, I've already aknwoledged the fact that the PLO committed massacres. They were often in retaliation, but that doesn't justify them in anyway. Do you have any solid argument to justify Kataeb's crimes other than "PLO were criminals too?".
The point of my post is not to absolve PLO of any crimes or whitewash their history, but to hold Kataeb also accountable for war crimes and for sparking the violence.
Nobody? that family got the traitor label all over it and hated very much across the Arab and Muslim world! ye3ni another hated and imposed taghiyah..
Yes of course there was a siege and so was the case for many other places like Taal al Zaatar it was also under long siege.
Many villages or neighborhoods were under siege at the time by both sides.
No to underestimate the Damour siege but we can not underestimate the siege of other places as well in that time.
And the Karantina massacre is still dated before the Damour massacre. But if you want to date the massacre starting from the siege then so should you do for Tal al Zaatar or other places.
And why not add Gmayel, Chamoun etc to your list as well ?
Whoever shot on that day is still shrouded with mysteries.. but the Kataeb responded way too quick on it without even thinking about what actually happened.
The PLO could be most likely behind it but what if it wasn't!
I think at the time it didn't matter for the Kataeb if the PLO were behind it or not!
Also Kataeb, Ahrar and others were having relationships with Israel way earlier than 1975.
Kataeb ties with Israel goes back as far as to 1948 so this should tell us something in itself!
Or just take Sabra and Shatila after the PLO withdrawal, there was no reason whatsoever for the cowardly attack on civilians by kataeb yet they did it by raping/killing women/elderly and murdering infants.
This is revenge to different level not even ISIS went so far as they did in murdering infants in their bare hands!
Even the Israeli themselves were shocked how far the Kataeb went in all of this. And I know some people who belong to the Kataeb camp who actually pride themselves over it yet they want to point finger and talk against so called Islamic terrorism.