Why isn't the president elected by the people?

Robin Hood

Robin Hood

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In a presidential system (a country where the president has important powers), s/he is normally elected by the people. Why isn't it the case in Lebanon?
 
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  • fidelio

    fidelio

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    In a presidential system (a country where the president has important powers), s/he is normally elected by the people. Why isn't it the case in Lebanon?
    Because our system of governance is modeled after the French Third Republic where the president was elected by the National Assembly and the members of the Parliament. It was changed under de Gaule's Fifth Republic reforms into a popular vote.
    It's not an uncommon system and it's completely constitutional and democratic in the sense that the people are the ultimate source of government in both cases, popular or parliamentary.
     
    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

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    Because our system of governance is modeled after the French Third Republic where the president was elected by the National Assembly and the members of the Parliament. It was changed under de Gaule's Fifth Republic reforms into a popular vote.
    It's not an uncommon system and it's completely constitutional and democratic in the sense that the people are the ultimate source of government in both cases, popular or parliamentary.
    Yes. But we sometimes can't agree on the president.
     
    fidelio

    fidelio

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    Yes. But we sometimes can't agree on the president.
    Members of parliament always vote for the speaker as well and we dont always agree on that as well. Somehow it seems that theres no problem in that.
     
    cedarheart

    cedarheart

    Well-Known Member
    In a presidential system (a country where the president has important powers), s/he is normally elected by the people. Why isn't it the case in Lebanon?
    You answered your own question.
    Lebanon is not a presidential democracy and the president has no important powers. Lebanon is a parliamentary democracy (on paper)
     
    !Aoune32

    !Aoune32

    Well-Known Member
    You answered your own question.
    Lebanon is not a presidential democracy and the president has no important powers. Lebanon is a parliamentary democracy (on paper)
    its not a full parliament democracy either. it is like semi presidential.
     
    JustLeb

    JustLeb

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    longtime ago I suggested the following
    - the presidency should alternate between Christians and Muslims like in many syndicates (the engineers, pharmacists for ex)
    - the PM should be Christian when the president is Muslim and vice-versa
    - The elections should be done by the people based on "electoral college" where both christians and muslims have the same electoral weight
    - The term of the president must be 5 years non-renewable, but he can run later on after someone else serves a term
    This system should be applied for at least 30 years until a new generation of lebanese people get used to a non sectarian system and can move the country forward.

    For me this is very easy to implement, but the current political class won't do it because it will lose its privileges
     
    Resign

    Resign

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    longtime ago I suggested the following
    - the presidency should alternate between Christians and Muslims like in many syndicates (the engineers, pharmacists for ex)
    - the PM should be Christian when the president is Muslim and vice-versa
    - The elections should be done by the people based on "electoral college" where both christians and muslims have the same electoral weight
    - The term of the president must be 5 years non-renewable, but he can run later on after someone else serves a term
    This system should be applied for at least 30 years until a new generation of lebanese people get used to a non sectarian system and can move the country forward.

    For me this is very easy to implement, but the current political class won't do it because it will lose its privileges
    Sorry, but terrible idea

    This alternating idea discourages people who reached positions of power from delivering,
    Why would any person work hard if he's to be replaced 100% 5 years later
    A person who reaches a Position of power should be motivated to deliver in case he wanted to maintain that position by having his(or his party's) term democratically renewed through elections as a sign of acceptance from the people
    say a very successful shiite Prime minister gained the acceptance of everyone in the country, why would you change him 5 years later?

    Besides, this whole idea is built around the fact that every group in Lebanon craves for power and does not care about productivity.
    (Which is the case, but we want to change that)
    Basically you are rotating the positions of power between the different Lebanese groups just to shut them up.
    This is not how your run a country.
     
    JustLeb

    JustLeb

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    Sorry, but terrible idea

    This alternating idea discourages people who reached positions of power from delivering,
    Why would any person work hard if he's to be replaced 100% 5 years later
    A person who reaches a Position of power should be motivated to deliver in case he wanted to maintain that position by having his(or his party's) term democratically renewed through elections as a sign of acceptance from the people
    say a very successful shiite Prime minister gained the acceptance of everyone in the country, why would you change him 5 years later?

    Besides, this whole idea is built around the fact that every group in Lebanon craves for power and does not care about productivity.
    (Which is the case, but we want to change that)
    Basically you are rotating the positions of power between the different Lebanese groups just to shut them up.
    This is not how your run a country.
    3a asses el productivity now is flooding :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
    Tayyar9

    Tayyar9

    Legendary Member
    Sorry, but terrible idea

    This alternating idea discourages people who reached positions of power from delivering,
    Why would any person work hard if he's to be replaced 100% 5 years later
    A person who reaches a Position of power should be motivated to deliver in case he wanted to maintain that position by having his(or his party's) term democratically renewed through elections as a sign of acceptance from the people
    say a very successful shiite Prime minister gained the acceptance of everyone in the country, why would you change him 5 years later?

    Besides, this whole idea is built around the fact that every group in Lebanon craves for power and does not care about productivity.
    (Which is the case, but we want to change that)
    Basically you are rotating the positions of power between the different Lebanese groups just to shut them up.
    This is not how your run a country.
    It's his job to work hard. What kind of president would that be aslan if the only reason for him to work was to get re-elected. A good president's job and wish is to serve his country and develop his country.
     
    Resign

    Resign

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    3a asses el productivity now is flooding :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
    See exactly
    The current system does not work because it revolves around the same idea
    Split all public positions between sects just to shut them up
    0 productivity

    Your idea is a slightly polished version of what we currently have

    This constitution proved its uselessness
    You cannot borrow the constitution of a (to some extent) homogeneous country like France and apply it to a jungle like Lebanon.

    As long as religious tribalism as a mentality is prevalent in Lebanon we’d rather split the country and let the every group rule itself

    Else we better consult the various tribes of the rain forests of Amazon on how to run a piece of land inhabited by various tribes and get our constitution from there.
     
    Resign

    Resign

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    It's his job to work hard. What kind of president would that be aslan if the only reason for him to work was to get re-elected. A good president's job and wish is to serve his country and develop his country.
    Look around you man
    Do you think Hariri is a good PM?

    Well i don’t
    But he’s forced on us by his tribe...
     
    Tayyar9

    Tayyar9

    Legendary Member
    Look around you man
    Do you think Hariri is a good PM?

    Well i don’t
    But he’s forced on us by his tribe...
    Exactly. He can be re-elected and he is not doing his job. It's not like it is pushing him to work harder.
    I actually liked @JustLeb 's idea, but no way it gets implemented.
     
    Resign

    Resign

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    Exactly. He can be re-elected and he is not doing his job. It's not like it is pushing him to work harder.
    I actually liked @JustLeb 's idea, but no way it gets implemented.
    Well i don’t think it’ll make a difference
    In fact i think it’ll create more sectarianism

    I don’t want to rotate Hariri between PM and president
    I don’t want any involvement with him...
    Let him rule his tribe and his tribe judging him since i’m not allowed to...
     
    Robin Hood

    Robin Hood

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    Make the president be eligible for 2 consecutive terms of 5 years like in France.
     
    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

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    In a presidential system (a country where the president has important powers), s/he is normally elected by the people. Why isn't it the case in Lebanon?
    If that happens and democracy takes grip in Lebanon, that would be the end of the French colonial apartheid legacy of the Maronite imposed sectarian confessional system in Lebanon. The end of sectarianism altogether. And from this thread, you will know the champions of sectarianism and those who do not want for that to happen. Aoun championed the call for the president to be elected by the people when he knew he would have won a majority with Shia-Christian votes and when MPs who have so much powers rejected him in their majority. Today he is silent about that call. Lips-sealed! Why? I don't know. But it only a matter of time before the inevitable happens and what is right would be done in the end of it all.
     
    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

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    Yes. But we sometimes can't agree on the president.
    Not "we". The MPs do not agree. They have mastered the art of monopolizing the people's mandate and voice using sectarian divide and conquer approach. Then, they use the powers invested in them as MPs to market themselves to foreign powers and to do the biddings of foreign governments. The MPs themselves and the sectarian warlords won't like the idea of having the people vote directly the president, and why not even the PM and speaker. Having the people to vote directly would strip them of much powers which they use to blackmail and hold back the country like they have already done twice before electing Sleiman and Aoun. It will happen again for a third time after Aoun. It needs no prophecy.
     
    Lebmonage

    Lebmonage

    Legendary Member
    Make the president be eligible for 2 consecutive terms of 5 years like in France.
    Even the masters whose system was supposedly copied have gotten rid of it and have a presidential system in place. No sincerity. Its all excuses you will get. What we have in place is not democracy. It is apartheid albeit to a lesser degree and well sugarcoated. Bkirki would be the first to oppose such a change alongside the sectarian feudal warlords. To stay relevant and have some important influence, they must retain powers in the hands of sectarian warlords. They must continue to hold to ransom the entire country and hold the nation by the jugular. And no one seem to be ashamed that in the 21st century we have such an archaic system in place that resembles a tribal government system.
     
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