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Will Catalonia secede from Spain?

gramsci

Legendary Member
Racism doesn't even begin to describe it. He wants Naples buried under lava.
Napoli is totally rules by mafia ( la cammorra ).. Its a common sarcastic way to say .. Hence lot of comerades from napoli are great people , they had a staunch resistance against nazists on 1945.
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Wheb palestinians protest against the israeli occupation , they are the one who cause problems?

U ought to respect the right of the determination of the peoples..

Catalonia is not occupied. It's always been part of Spain.
If I were a leader and a bunch of rebels decided to secede for no reason, putting a country's economy at stake, I would do anything to prevent this.

In any case, they should hold a "No" referendum too. The silent majority doesn't want to secede.
 

gramsci

Legendary Member
Have u ever studied about the ottoman empire occupation in lebanon , and their will to impose the turkish language on people for example ? Following their logic the repression of jamal pascha on 1916 we legittimate to defend the unity of the empire?
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Catalonia is moving to declare independence despite the fact the no-campaigners abstained from voting.

How is this not dictatorship?
 

gramsci

Legendary Member
The conservative Popular Party of Mariano Rajoy, the Spanish prime minister, is only the fifth-largest party in Catalonia, and is strongly opposed to any moves for independence for the region.

The president of Catalonia, Carles Puigdemont, is backed by a coalition of Catalan nationalist forces from the conservative CDC and the leftist Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya (ERC) parties, which, together with the radical Left-wing CUP party, command a majority in the region’s parliament.


CUP ;)
 

gramsci

Legendary Member
If the no campainers are that much , why the spanish govern didnt guarantee the free vote without turning catalonia into a battle field?
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Have u ever studied about the ottoman empire occupation in lebanon , and their will to impose the turkish language on people for example ? Following their logic the repression of jamal pascha on 1916 we legittimate to defend the unity of the empire?


Your analogies don't make sense.
Turkey was an occupying force. It had no right to be there from the beginning.

Catalonia is a free autonomous region with its own language, just like Galicia, and Basque country...
It's not a special case.
 

gramsci

Legendary Member
Your analogies don't make sense.
Turkey was an occupying force. It had no right to be there from the beginning.

Catalonia is a free autonomous region with its own language, just like Galicia, and Basque country...
It's not a special case.
Lebanon has its own autonomy inside ottoman empire !!


Anyway talking about basque , have u ever heard about their independist movements ? ETA ?

If the spanish want a fascist regime rule, covered with a party like pp , catalan and basque people are noy obbliged to be rules by such regime that occupied killed and oppressed them for years..
 

gramsci

Legendary Member
The history of Catalonia
Catalonia was an independent region of the Iberian Peninsula – modern day Spain and Portugal – with its own language, laws and customs.

In 1150, the marriage of Petronilia, Queen of Aragon and Ramon Berenguer IV, Count of Barcelona formed a dynasty leaving their son to inherit all territories concerning the region of Aragon and Catalonia.
This lasted until the reign of King Philip V. The War of the Spanish Succession ended with the defeat of Valencia in 1707, of Catalonia in 1714, and finally with the last of the islands in 1715 – resulting in the birth of modern-day Spain.

Subsequent kings tried to impose the Spanish language and laws on the region, but they abandoned their attempts in 1931 and restored the Generalitat (the national Catalan government).

General Francisco Franco, however, set out to destroy Catalan separatism and with his victory at the Battle of Ebro in 1938 he took control of the region, killing 3,500 people and forcing many more into exile.

The region was granted a degree of autonomy once more in 1977, when democracy returned to the country.


Calls for complete independence grew steadily until July 2010, when the Constitutional Court in Madrid overruled part of the 2006 autonomy statute, stating that there is no legal basis for recognising Catalonia as a nation within Spain.

The economic crisis in Spain has only served to magnify calls for Catalan independence – as the wealthy Barcelona region is seen as propping up the poorer rest of Spain.
 

President-Elect Apo

Your will, my hands.
Orange Room Supporter
Catalonia is not occupied. It's always been part of Spain.
If I were a leader and a bunch of rebels decided to secede for no reason, putting a country's economy at stake, I would do anything to prevent this.

In any case, they should hold a "No" referendum too. The silent majority doesn't want to secede.

How did you conclude that Catalunya always was part of Spain? just based on what you know as Spain in the last 60-70-100 years?

Centuries ago, they were an independent kingdom from spain , among others. Spain controlled those kingdoms by wars.

I've known several catalan people, and they all defined themselves as catalans, not spanish. They claim their own identity. They have their own language that is different than spanish.
Even the Real Madrid vs Barcelona rivalry is a reflection of the identity and political conflict. That rivalry isn't just football-based.

The spanish governments have forever been waging a cultural and identity war against catalunya and its language. And catalunya have the complete right to preserve their culture and language, and regain their independence.
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
How did you conclude that Catalunya always was part of Spain? just based on what you know as Spain in the last 60-70-100 years?

Centuries ago, they were an independent kingdom from spain , among others. Spain controlled those kingdoms by wars.

I've known several catalan people, and they all defined themselves as catalans, not spanish. They claim their own identity. They have their own language that is different than spanish.
Even the Real Madrid vs Barcelona rivalry is a reflection of the identity and political conflict. That rivalry isn't just football-based.

The spanish governments have forever been waging a cultural and identity war against catalunya and its language. And catalunya have the complete right to preserve their culture and language, and regain their independence.

It has been part of Spain since the 15th century.
 

vegojimbo

Legendary Member
Catalonia is not occupied. It's always been part of Spain.
If I were a leader and a bunch of rebels decided to secede for no reason, putting a country's economy at stake, I would do anything to prevent this.

In any case, they should hold a "No" referendum too. The silent majority doesn't want to secede.

Catalonia is moving to declare independence despite the fact the no-campaigners abstained from voting.

How is this not dictatorship?
How do you know that those who didn't vote are all part of the "no to independence" faction? based on what are u making this erroneous assumption? Many pro-independence citizens might have not voted for fear of the spanish government making trouble at the time of voting, some could be elderly, with disabilities, or below the voting age.
Besides, what prevented the "no" faction from voting? They were on the side of the spanish government and were far less likely to be jailed or harassed. if they had fears, why didn't the spanish government offer to protect them since u claim they are the silent majority? It could have completely destroyed the political arguments of the secessionists by proving most catalonians want to stay inside Spain.

The only thing that would undermine the referendum and question its usefulness is if the turnout was low. 43% isn't quite high, but it isn't so low as to question its legitimacy.
 

Nonan

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
How did you conclude that Catalunya always was part of Spain? just based on what you know as Spain in the last 60-70-100 years?

Centuries ago, they were an independent kingdom from spain , among others. Spain controlled those kingdoms by wars.

I've known several catalan people, and they all defined themselves as catalans, not spanish. They claim their own identity. They have their own language that is different than spanish.
Even the Real Madrid vs Barcelona rivalry is a reflection of the identity and political conflict. That rivalry isn't just football-based.

The spanish governments have forever been waging a cultural and identity war against catalunya and its language. And catalunya have the complete right to preserve their culture and language, and regain their independence.
Having a strong regional identity is one thing (think Basque people, Corsican people, Brittany in France, etc.). That does not mean support for a savage independence campaign that is half baked, could have dramatic economic impact and is driven by a party that does not have the majority of the votes (otherwise, they would have agreed for a reelection).
 

Jorje

Legendary Member
Catalonian government seems equally as intent in denying the people a voice. That referendum was a farce, we all know it; for whatever reason it is not representative the will of the people.
 

GrumpForTrump

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Now, with Madrid moving to curb Barcelona's powers, do you think Spain is headed for a new civil war?
 
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