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XI Emperor of China and Mao Sucessor ; The China of Xi and the World

Xi will

  • Make China the most important global power by 2050

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • Make China one of the global powers by 2050

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • Eliminate Corruption in China

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • Solve the environment disaster in China

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • Make a deal for religious freedom with the Vatican

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • Fail in his plans

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • keep power for 20 years

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Keep powers for 30 years

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • Lose power soon

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    4
Dynamite Joe

Dynamite Joe

Well-Known Member
Economic expansion is always followed by military expansion in order to secure strategic ressources and client states where one can dump its industrial production.

We saw it with the british, french and ottoman imperialism. And the usa's intervention in japan to industrialize it was to block britain's economic grasp over the far east, so as not to have a china 2.0 style nation submitted tyo the whims if the crown.

Fast forward to today, china is catching up, its strategic ressources need to be secured especially oil, and its building its navy to that goal. China will be emulating the usa and soviets when it gets the necessary technology and fire power.

Or else they wont survive
Some of the examples you mentioned built their economic prosperity on military power. Meaning it was their superior military that allowed them to achieve economic power. China’s economic growth was not preceded by a strong military, nor was it used aggressively to plunder the resources of other nations. They became the world’s largest trader as of 2013 and are already the world’s largest economy if you adjust using purchasing power parity. It boasts the largest market in the world which is precisely what fueled its economic growth. If you see the Chinese air force bombing Indonesia or Thailand, or half way across the world in Arabia or South America, then you have a point. Meanwhile, what you're saying is speculative at best. What we do know is they are a major economic superpower and did not have to use their military in aggression to get there à la U.S., Britain, France... Lastly, China is culturally so different than the U.S. that you cannot possibly place it on the same trajectory.
 
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  • Dynamite Joe

    Dynamite Joe

    Well-Known Member
    "Pridnestrovie", "Georgia", "Ukraine", "Syria" testify against your theory of RF not having global aspiration.
    I think you're pretending to be ignorant. The examples you brought up are classic cases of U.S. meddling and Russia acting in self defense.
     
    Iron Maiden

    Iron Maiden

    Paragon of Bacon
    Orange Room Supporter
    Some of the examples you mentioned built their economic prosperity on military power. Meaning it was their superior military that allowed them to achieve economic power. China’s economic growth was not preceded by a strong military, nor was it used aggressively to plunder the resources of other nations. They became the world’s largest trader as of 2013 and are already the world’s largest economy if you adjust using purchasing power parity. It boasts the largest market in the world which is precisely what fueled its economic growth. If you see the Chinese air force bombing Indonesia or Thailand, or half way across the world in Arabia or South America, then you have a point. Meanwhile, what you're saying is speculative at best. What we do know is they are a major economic superpower and did not have to use their military in aggression to get there à la U.S., Britain, France... Lastly, China is culturally so different than the U.S. that you cannot possibly place it on the same trajectory.
    China until very recently was had the biggest rare materials reserves, a coal based industry with immense coal reserves and NK as a strategic coal partner, and good oil production. So it did not need to procire strategic ressources from beyond its direct neighborhood. Hence no navy.

    But the game is changing very fast as chinese society is getting richer and their base needs are evolving to include more ressource intensive products. The chinese middle class is the equivalent of the us population and is more materialistic in terms of purchasing habits.

    China may not hav colonized through military means but it controls strategic country's main industrial and commercial sectors in malasia, thailand, laos, indonesia, the eastern coast of africa. The chinese industrial groups are starting to outsource in order to lower production costs, just as the west did. All these economic assests need protection and this why since 2005 chinese navy budget has been going through the roof, it is dumping its tradition quantity approach to a more streamlined western approach of reliable high quality ships and subs. All pointers to an incoming deployememt of naval task forves abroad, where as the quantity approach was a defense in depth strategy throught the 20th century.

    I disagree with u when u said that the examples i showed were military expansion followed by economic expansion. Especially for the uk. Their economic dominance in the 19th century is key to their military expansion throught the world.

    If u ever feel bored try and read this.
    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33153.pdf
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    I think you're pretending to be ignorant. The examples you brought up are classic cases of U.S. meddling and Russia acting in self defense.
    This is the bs Putin that is peddling since his day one in office, but not many are buying it (well, except Russia's average Ivans).

    Had it been true RF wouldn't have existed after 1998 default, but instead USA pulled its ass out of that fire.
     
    Dynamite Joe

    Dynamite Joe

    Well-Known Member
    China until very recently was had the biggest rare materials reserves, a coal based industry with immense coal reserves and NK as a strategic coal partner, and good oil production. So it did not need to procire strategic ressources from beyond its direct neighborhood. Hence no navy.

    But the game is changing very fast as chinese society is getting richer and their base needs are evolving to include more ressource intensive products. The chinese middle class is the equivalent of the us population and is more materialistic in terms of purchasing habits.

    China may not hav colonized through military means but it controls strategic country's main industrial and commercial sectors in malasia, thailand, laos, indonesia, the eastern coast of africa. The chinese industrial groups are starting to outsource in order to lower production costs, just as the west did. All these economic assests need protection and this why since 2005 chinese navy budget has been going through the roof, it is dumping its tradition quantity approach to a more streamlined western approach of reliable high quality ships and subs. All pointers to an incoming deployememt of naval task forves abroad, where as the quantity approach was a defense in depth strategy throught the 20th century.

    I disagree with u when u said that the examples i showed were military expansion followed by economic expansion. Especially for the uk. Their economic dominance in the 19th century is key to their military expansion throught the world.

    If u ever feel bored try and read this.
    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33153.pdf
    Their expansion by overseas investment, such as the 'Belt and Road' framework, has been a win-win approach. Instead of using the politics of fear; whether it's the mere threat of military action, economic isolation or sanctions (Iran being in recent news), China has largely remained low profile on the world political stage, except in its capacity as a permanent member of the UN security council.

    You basically described China's military build up as a self defense strategy, which is my point. Due to China forging its own path and not being subservient to U.S. foreign policy, it's overseas assets are indeed in danger among other things. As such, it would be suicidal for them not to take defensive measures. But I have yet to see China using its military aggressively and preemptively to plunder resources. The key for their political independence is not only a strong military to keep the U.S. in check, but economical independence. That cannot happen without China producing reliable civil aircrafts and engines for commercial travel. Their reliance on strategic technologies from western powers will hinder their progress down the road. Thus, the success of China's commercial aircraft program, and their space program for that matter, will be crucial in remaining competitive and withstanding any western backed efforts to isolate it by means of trade tariffs, economic sanctions etc.

    Apart from that, Britain's military superiority indeed did fuel their economic expansion and came well before the 19th century. You can track back their economic expansion to the 16th century which not surprisingly coincides with their first colonies. Their naval technology allowed them to dominate trade routes through colonization. One of the key moments that helped spur their expansion was the defeat of the Spansh Armada. After that, they had no real rival in the seas and could go unfettered. Colonialism is synonymous with British economic expansion. No one would deny that, not even the british crown.
     
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    Dynamite Joe

    Dynamite Joe

    Well-Known Member
    This is the bs Putin that is peddling since his day one in office, but not many are buying it (well, except Russia's average Ivans).

    Had it been true RF wouldn't have existed after 1998 default, but instead USA pulled its ass out of that fire.
    I think you're just sore that Putin gave your guys a good ass whooping. They tried in Syria but failed, they opened another front in Ukraine and got egg on their face, they continued to meddle in Syria but were met with stiff resistance. The U.S. is learning fast that the post cold war world it came to dominate with an iron first is changing. The emergence of China as a major economic force on the global stage has given Putin the resources he always lacked to defend effectively against western imperialism.
     
    gramsci

    gramsci

    Legendary Member
    To understand china u must understand their ideology..here a starting point.

     
    Thawra # Furoshima

    Thawra # Furoshima

    Well-Known Member
    Dogfights are no longer possible.
    Fighter planes do not even carry cannons anymore - it's missile shootout only.
    I agree
    But this Missiles battle will face electronic countermeasures with Russia ??
    So perhaps with China but with Russia the stealth planes might have to fight the Sukhoi in a dogfight if the Sukhoi destroyed their missiles and locate them
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    I agree
    But this Missiles battle will face electronic countermeasures with Russia ??
    So perhaps with China but with Russia the stealth planes might have to fight the Sukhoi in a dogfight if the Sukhoi destroyed their missiles and locate them
    I understand the concept, but I just cannot make myself call it a dogfight because opposing pilots might not even be able to see each other while being too far apart.
     
    Thawra # Furoshima

    Thawra # Furoshima

    Well-Known Member
    I understand the concept, but I just cannot make myself call it a dogfight because opposing pilots might not even be able to see each other while being too far apart.
    True I agree with that
    It might be decided by short range missiles
     
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