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Yet Another Mass Shooting in the US

Muki

Muki

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
How will you pay for the amount of people who enlist? This is not a serious proposal, more a cry for help...

They simply need more controls on who gets what, more checks, and certainly more taxes and make it more difficult to procure weapons and ammunition... i.e. make it more expensive and more complex...
"How will you pay for it" serves no purpose other than to shut down discussion about solutions. We can pay for anything we want. We have paid millions of dollars for hundreds of golf trips (for a President who spends more time golfing and tweeting than doing his job). This is far more urgent. The Pentagon is the most wasteful of our federal agencies, and they waste because they are not held accountable. Curb the waste and use savings to pay for reserves. Along with other means and methods. Anyways, this suggestion is one I like because it connects service to country with gun ownership, as is the case in countries like Switzerland and Israel (though they are not exactly identical to the proposal in the Op-Ed).

I expect nothing to be done. GOP are bought and paid for by the NRA, and as long as Moscow Mitch continues to treat the Senate like Berri treats the Lebanese Parliament, say good bye to any worthwhile legislation. GOP always say "gun legislation should be left to the states" and yet in all states they control, they have not passed any legislation to deal with the problem. On the other hand, Democrats have been repeating the same arguments about gun control for the past 25 years (arguments which are supported by majority of Americans, according to polls). They have not moved an inch on the issue. Time for new thinking and new solutions, especially that the NRA is engaged in an internal civil war at the moment. A lot of these problems are due to the fact that conservatives on the Supreme Court think corporations have a legal right to pump as much many as they possibly can into our elections and legislative process. We can't even pass legislation to appropriate federal dollars towards STUDYING the issue, for ****'s sale, and that's directly attributed to the fact that too many Republicans (and some Democrats) are on the payroll of NRA. If we can't even study the problem, how can we find a solution?! The fight for gun control is a fight against corruption, first and foremost. And by the way, they do not want us to study the problem because once we do so, we will have an official government agency proclaiming the claims of NRA advocates are all a bunch of lies consistently regurgitated in order to boost arms sales. Gun sales go up after mass shootings, in general...
 
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  • proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    So, what's the problem and what do you propose to do about it? Or are you waiting for a family member of yours to die in a shooting, for this to become an urgent issue for you?

    The Dayton shooter was shot and killed 30 seconds after he fired the first round.

    In 30 seconds, he was able to murder 9 people.

    The type of weapon and magazine capacity is directly responsible for the shooter being able to murder this many in so little time. Any other gun with less capacity or rapid fire would have decreased the death toll dramatically.
    "what do you propose to do about it?"

    You need to understand that proposing an action that does not yield tangible result is akin to not suggesting anything.
    You may feel better, but you still will not safe a single life.

    Here is hint - if you truly want to fix problem or at least mitigate it then look into individuals, not guns.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    "How will you pay for it" serves no purpose other than to shut down discussion about solutions. We can pay for anything we want. We have paid millions of dollars for hundreds of golf trips (for a President who spends more time golfing and tweeting than doing his job). This is far more urgent. The Pentagon is the most wasteful of our federal agencies, and they waste because they are not held accountable. Curb the waste and use savings to pay for reserves. Along with other means and methods. Anyways, this suggestion is one I like because it connects service to country with gun ownership, as is the case in countries like Switzerland and Israel (though they are not exactly identical to the proposal in the Op-Ed).

    I expect nothing to be done. GOP are bought and paid for by the NRA, and as long as Moscow Mitch continues to treat the Senate like Berri treats the Lebanese Parliament, say good bye to any worthwhile legislation. GOP always say "gun legislation should be left to the states" and yet in all states they control, they have not passed any legislation to deal with the problem. On the other hand, Democrats have been repeating the same arguments about gun control for the past 25 years (arguments which are supported by majority of Americans, according to polls). They have not moved an inch on the issue. Time for new thinking and new solutions, especially that the NRA is engaged in an internal civil war at the moment. A lot of these problems are due to the fact that conservatives on the Supreme Court think corporations have a legal right to pump as much many as they possibly can into our elections and legislative process. We can't even pass legislation to appropriate federal dollars towards STUDYING the issue, for ****'s sale, and that's directly attributed to the fact that too many Republicans (and some Democrats) are on the payroll of NRA. If we can't even study the problem, how can we find a solution?! The fight for gun control is a fight against corruption, first and foremost. And by the way, they do not want us to study the problem because once we do so, we will have an official government agency proclaiming the claims of NRA advocates are all a bunch of lies consistently regurgitated in order to boost arms sales. Gun sales go up after mass shootings, in general...
    ""How will you pay for it" serves no purpose other than to shut down discussion about solutions" - solution that you cannot afford is not a solution.
     
    epedep

    epedep

    New Member
    "Anyone purchasing a gun should be required to enlist for military reserve service, spanning the entire period of their gun ownership."

    I am against it, one has nothing to do with the other - "Second Amendment" is not a problem, nor are the guns.
    I second this, there are many old people who own guns and are incapable of serving. And also, violent extremism as that which got 8chan kicked off for a while is the real problem.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    "what do you propose to do about it?"

    You need to understand that proposing an action that does not yield tangible result is akin to not suggesting anything.
    You may feel better, but you still will not safe a single life.

    Here is hint - if you truly want to fix problem or at least mitigate it then look into individuals, not guns.
    Has the GOP looked into individuals? What does that even mean?
    Please link me to any GOP-sponsored bills where they suggest solutions that yield tangible results.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    ""How will you pay for it" serves no purpose other than to shut down discussion about solutions" - solution that you cannot afford is not a solution.
    We can afford to pay for anything we want. We are the richest country in the world.

    And why are you ignoring the fact that the good guys with guns could not prevent a shooter from murdering 9 people, even though the cops shot and killed him in 30 seconds? Clearly if that guy did not have a modified semi-automatic assault rifle equipped with 100-round drum magazine, he would not have been able to murder that many people. That's just common sense. Not all guns are created equal.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    Has the GOP looked into individuals? What does that even mean?
    Please link me to any GOP-sponsored bills where they suggest solutions that yield tangible results.
    What GOP got to do with it, why do you let Dems slide.

    "What does that even mean?" - could mean many things. However, I never cared to think about it seriously because just like with FISA and everything else liberals will find the way to corrupt it and impede the Rights of innocent Americans.

    So, for me personally the only viable (not the best, but working) solution in situations like in El Paso and Dayton would be to carry my own weapon everywhere I can and be ready to defend my family and myself and possibly innocent bystanders as well.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    We can afford to pay for anything we want. We are the richest country in the world.

    And why are you ignoring the fact that the good guys with guns could not prevent a shooter from murdering 9 people, even though the cops shot and killed him in 30 seconds? Clearly if that guy did not have a modified semi-automatic assault rifle equipped with 100-round drum magazine, he would not have been able to murder that many people. That's just common sense. Not all guns are created equal.
    "We can afford to pay for anything we want. We are the richest country in the world." - I do not wish to insult you, but this is the dumbest statement I heard from you to date.

    This is exactly how idiot Obama almost run the country into the ground, but luckily for us his time has ran out.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    What GOP got to do with it, why do you let Dems slide.

    "What does that even mean?" - could mean many things. However, I never cared to think about it seriously because just like with FISA and everything else liberals will find the way to corrupt it and impede the Rights of innocent Americans.

    So, for me personally the only viable (not the best, but working) solution in situations like in El Paso and Dayton would be to carry my own weapon everywhere I can and be ready to defend my family and myself and possibly innocent bystanders as well.
    I do not let Democrats slide. Democrats have proposed many plans, with ways to pay for them, but it is Republicans who refuse to move on the issue. It is Republicans who have not proposed any solutions (if they did, please inform me). The very least we can do is fund research into gun violence so we can know why we have more mass shootings than anywhere else in the world. Study the problem to find a solution. I do not think this is a political problem, nor an ideological conflict between left and right. It is common sense. And it also applies to other professions, including mine (civil engineering). Yet GOP continue to block funding for gun violence research. GOP can't give bullshit excuses about the debt when they are the ones who are running a projected 1 trillion dollars deficit, caused by their massive tax cut for the rich policies. This is an issue that hits all communities.

    If you have solutions, let's discuss them. But don't be upset if I stop taking you seriously should you keep shutting down reasonable solutions. And as always, Congress is about nothing if not deliberation. And it was Moscow Mitch who proclaimed the Senate as the most deliberative legislative chamber in history. It seems he forgot about that, turning the Senate into nothing but a body that confirms Trump appointees rather than deliberates and legislates in the interests of the American people.

    As for you personally, I do not think you have thought this through. It took the shooter in Dayton 30 seconds to murder 9 people. That's 1 kill every 3 seconds (impressive on a video game, not so much in real life). You better hope you have the skill to draw your weapon, aim, shoot and kill the shooter in 3 seconds. Because 1 second late and a family member of yours is dead. Now, logic says someone who is locked, loaded, and ready to shoot with intent to kill has the tactical advantage over an unsuspecting family dining somewhere, visiting the movies, or enjoying a day out at a festival. Are you really willing to risk the life of a family member, or your life, because you want to play ****ing Rambo? And what is the problem with wanting to even your odds, if you choose to carry a concealed weapon, by restricting access to semi-automatic weapons such as the ones used in the shootings?
     
    Walidos

    Walidos

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    "How will you pay for it" serves no purpose other than to shut down discussion about solutions. We can pay for anything we want. We have paid millions of dollars for hundreds of golf trips (for a President who spends more time golfing and tweeting than doing his job). This is far more urgent. The Pentagon is the most wasteful of our federal agencies, and they waste because they are not held accountable. Curb the waste and use savings to pay for reserves. Along with other means and methods. Anyways, this suggestion is one I like because it connects service to country with gun ownership, as is the case in countries like Switzerland and Israel (though they are not exactly identical to the proposal in the Op-Ed).

    I expect nothing to be done. GOP are bought and paid for by the NRA, and as long as Moscow Mitch continues to treat the Senate like Berri treats the Lebanese Parliament, say good bye to any worthwhile legislation. GOP always say "gun legislation should be left to the states" and yet in all states they control, they have not passed any legislation to deal with the problem. On the other hand, Democrats have been repeating the same arguments about gun control for the past 25 years (arguments which are supported by majority of Americans, according to polls). They have not moved an inch on the issue. Time for new thinking and new solutions, especially that the NRA is engaged in an internal civil war at the moment. A lot of these problems are due to the fact that conservatives on the Supreme Court think corporations have a legal right to pump as much many as they possibly can into our elections and legislative process. We can't even pass legislation to appropriate federal dollars towards STUDYING the issue, for ****'s sale, and that's directly attributed to the fact that too many Republicans (and some Democrats) are on the payroll of NRA. If we can't even study the problem, how can we find a solution?! The fight for gun control is a fight against corruption, first and foremost. And by the way, they do not want us to study the problem because once we do so, we will have an official government agency proclaiming the claims of NRA advocates are all a bunch of lies consistently regurgitated in order to boost arms sales. Gun sales go up after mass shootings, in general...
    Oh my... I didn’t shut down the discussion, quite the contrary... spending is one thing, spending more than what you have or can afford is quite the other... anyhow - I’ll leave you to debate with NIPI...
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    I do not let Democrats slide. Democrats have proposed many plans, with ways to pay for them, but it is Republicans who refuse to move on the issue. It is Republicans who have not proposed any solutions (if they did, please inform me). The very least we can do is fund research into gun violence so we can know why we have more mass shootings than anywhere else in the world. Study the problem to find a solution. I do not think this is a political problem, nor an ideological conflict between left and right. It is common sense. And it also applies to other professions, including mine (civil engineering). Yet GOP continue to block funding for gun violence research. GOP can't give bullshit excuses about the debt when they are the ones who are running a projected 1 trillion dollars deficit, caused by their massive tax cut for the rich policies. This is an issue that hits all communities.

    If you have solutions, let's discuss them. But don't be upset if I stop taking you seriously should you keep shutting down reasonable solutions. And as always, Congress is about nothing if not deliberation. And it was Moscow Mitch who proclaimed the Senate as the most deliberative legislative chamber in history. It seems he forgot about that, turning the Senate into nothing but a body that confirms Trump appointees rather than deliberates and legislates in the interests of the American people.

    As for you personally, I do not think you have thought this through. It took the shooter in Dayton 30 seconds to murder 9 people. That's 1 kill every 3 seconds (impressive on a video game, not so much in real life). You better hope you have the skill to draw your weapon, aim, shoot and kill the shooter in 3 seconds. Because 1 second late and a family member of yours is dead. Now, logic says someone who is locked, loaded, and ready to shoot with intent to kill has the tactical advantage over an unsuspecting family dining somewhere, visiting the movies, or enjoying a day out at a festival. Are you really willing to risk the life of a family member, or your life, because you want to play ****ing Rambo? And what is the problem with wanting to even your odds, if you choose to carry a concealed weapon, by restricting access to semi-automatic weapons such as the ones used in the shootings?
    "Democrats have proposed many plans" - nope, Democrats offered many variations of the same plan "get rid of guns" and I have already answered this point when you raised it earlier.

    "but it is Republicans who refuse to move on the issue" - that has been answered as well and in the very post to which you have replied.

    "If you have solutions, let's discuss them" - I answered this one already too.

    "Are you really willing to risk the life of a family member, or your life, because you want to play ****ing Rambo?" - it means that you do not understand the subject.

    OK, let's do the experiment, let's make believe that we adapted all you proposals and see if situation such as El Paso can be prevented. Please, list all your ideas and we will address them one by one.
     
    Muki

    Muki

    Legendary Member
    Orange Room Supporter
    Oh my... I didn’t shut down the discussion, quite the contrary... spending is one thing, spending more than what you have or can afford is quite the other... anyhow - I’ll leave you to debate with NIPI...
    Democrats are not proposing anything that they do not outline exactly how they're going to pay for. The Op-Ed is an interesting idea, but still not anything anyone proposed in Congress. The author did not exactly detail the nitty gritty of his proposal, and I am not going to do it for him. I'll end with this. Under Obama, Democrats cut the deficit by around half. Under Trump, Republicans tripled the deficit, raising it to near 1 trillion dollars. This shows that Democrats, who tend to spend more on social programs, raise enough revenue and then some to pay for what they wish to spend. Republicans keep spending levels the same, but they cut revenue for the government, increasing the deficit. You want to ask "how do you pay for it," go ask a Republican. It is, after all, how they shut every single debate in Congress and elsewhere about how to improve life for Americans, while at the same time selling off our country to corporations and foreign governments.
     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    @Muki ,

    Here is something you will never learn from liberal media.
    However, remember that for Democrats it is just cheap political point while for you and I it could be matter of life and death
    :

    "Possible Mass Shooting Stopped By Good Guy With A Gun"

    "An off-duty firefighter with a concealed carry permit wasted no time holding a 20-year-old man, clad in body armor and lugging a rifle, at gunpoint.

    Police officers arrived three minutes later.

    Authorities are now crediting the good samaritan with stopping a potential bloodbath.
    "

     
    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    proIsrael-nonIsraeli

    Legendary Member
    @Muki ,

    Here is something else for you to think about - remember, Mexico has zero-tolerance laws regarding firearms, you'll got to jail for very long time even for single round found in your possession:

    "A Mexican gang hung 9 dead bodies from a bridge in a gruesome battle linked to control of the avocado trade"

     
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