Israel Zionism vs islamism the fate of palestine and israel

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
The onslaught of logical fallacies continues, but I am not surprised. You do not strike me as someone who values logic or consistency.

I have never claimed otherwise to what you wrote, which makes the above a strawman fallacy.

Who the hell is discussing free will here? It is you who carries the belief that if particular group of Jews do not adhere to your dogmatic views, then they are no longer "true Jews." It is you who tends to discriminate against people on the basis of their national origin. These are all totalitarian views that you hold, and that you are projecting on me.

I am not religious, I am an atheist. Atheist born, atheist bred, and one day atheist dead.
I prescribe to no dogma, only to historical facts. It is you who is quoting scripture (which is yet again another logical fallacy, circular reasoning).

I think i wasted enough of my time here.
ok
 

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
I think you need to work on your attitude. I am making reference to verses from the Quran, which I am reading in Arabic. As I said in many other posts, I am not a propagandist and I am not interested in political nationalist state ideologies or power mobilization into conflict.

Based on my reading in the Quran, I see an elevation of Moses, the Torah and the Jews. I am sure you never read the Quran in Arabic due to the fact that you do not know the language. I know the language.

I am making reference to an existing text.

You are correct - I've never read Quaran in any language, nor I've made claims based on Quran saying.

However, I am not replying based on Quaran sayings.

This was my phrase: "Bible claims that Chosen people have failed god"

And this was your reply "Inaccurate ... Bible claims Israelites and Judeans failed god"

Naturally, my last reply was: "Oh, come on - spare me this "true Jews" BS" for we are talking about the same group of people.
 
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proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
Get a life, you only humiliate yourself by your speech. Your totalitarian concept of "all Jews are equal" is not different from the radical Muslims totalitarian discourse of "all Muslims are a nation" you and them are two faces of the same coin.

"Your totalitarian concept of "all Jews are equal" is not different from the radical Muslims totalitarian discourse of "all Muslims are a nation""

I do not see the reasons for your hostility toward "all Jews are equal", isn't it what should be natural course of society development.

As to this "all Muslims are a nation" - it's not for me to decide, but for Muslims.
Still there is nothing wrong with it one way or the other nor should you care.
 

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
Humans are diversified individuals with a mind of their own and humans have free will to choose their path in this life. This includes the Jews as humans. I never said that all humans are equal because they are not equal.

I am not in an identity crisis. Those who believe in a totalitarian identity of groups of people live in a crisis. I have no religious identity because I have no religion. I am free and not eslaved for a state or an institutional ideology. You need to liberate yourself from your own totalitarian ideolology because we are moving to a world with no national identity while you seem to be stuck in outdated concepts of "identity."

I am not in search for an identity.

"I am not in an identity crisis ... I am not in search for an identity"

Looks like you are in search of identities of others even though others are fully content with their identities.
Looks like you are beginning to drown in your own BS.
 

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
You are correct - I've never read Quaran in any language, nor I've made claims based on Quran saying.

However, I am not replying based on Quaran sayings.

This was my phrase: "Bible claims that Chosen people have failed god"

And this was your reply "Inaccurate ... Bible claims Israelites and Judeans failed god"

Naturally, my last reply was: "Oh, come on - spare me this "true Jews" BS" for we are talking about the same group of people.

No we are not. In the Bible we have two houses. Israel and Judah. Israel were not Jews. They were Samaritan and pagan and Judah was Jewish. This is unless you are reading another Bible than the Bible which is out there in the market. Israelites are the house of Israel. Judeans are the house of Judah, and Benyamin and Levi.

Spare us your B.S. Because seemingly being atheist makes you imagine what is in the Bible.
 
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Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
"Your totalitarian concept of "all Jews are equal" is not different from the radical Muslims totalitarian discourse of "all Muslims are a nation""

I do not see the reasons for your hostility toward "all Jews are equal", isn't it what should be natural course of society development.

As to this "all Muslims are a nation" - it's not for me to decide, but for Muslims.
Still there is nothing wrong with it one way or the other nor should you care.

You seem to be hostile to any point which is different than the dogma you believe in. You can believe that there is an "all". I just do not believe that there is some collection called people. I think we are individuals. By my individuality I speak, and not by some group indoctrinated dogma. Like it fine, but do not terrorize me with your totalitarian way of thinking.
 

Mighty Goat

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
"I am not in an identity crisis ... I am not in search for an identity"

Looks like you are in search of identities of others even though others are fully content with their identities.
Looks like you are beginning to drown in your own BS.
Is there a ban on seeking knowledge?
 

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
No we are not. In the Bible we have two houses. Israel and Judah. Israel were not Jews. They were Samaritan and pagan and Judah was Jewish. This is unless you are reading another Bible than the Bible which is out there in the market. Israelites are the house of Israel. Judeans are the house of Judah, and Benyamin and Levi.

Spare us your B.S. Because seemingly being atheist makes you imagine what is in the Bible.

All 12 tribes of Israel are the same people. Well, many are remaining lost at the moment, but give it a time.

PS. Samaritans have decided to become Jews millennia ago. You should get used to it by now.
 

proIsrael-nonIsraeli

Legendary Member
You seem to be hostile to any point which is different than the dogma you believe in. You can believe that there is an "all". I just do not believe that there is some collection called people. I think we are individuals. By my individuality I speak, and not by some group indoctrinated dogma. Like it fine, but do not terrorize me with your totalitarian way of thinking.

Why would you use term "hostile", is it because we disagree? Do not be upset, it's natural not to have identical opinions.
 

Jorje

Legendary Member
SHOCKING. Ashkenazi Jews have mostly European origin. I'm sure we'll deadly surprised by this given how Middle Eastern they look. I mean, I would have thought Weizmann and Lieberman khel2o b b3albek.

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European
By Tia Ghose, Staff Writer | October 8, 2013 11:00am ET

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jewish-man-120510.jpg

An Orthodox Jewish man with the traditional peyos, or long sidelocks.
Credit: Kobby Dagan / Shutterstock.com
The origin of the Ashkenazi Jews, who come most recently from Europe, has largely been shrouded in mystery. But a new study suggests that at least their maternal lineage may derive largely from Europe.
Though the finding may seem intuitive, it contradicts the notion that European Jews mostly descend from people who left Israel and the Middle East around 2,000 years ago. Instead, a substantial proportion of the population originates from local Europeans who converted to Judaism, said study co-author Martin Richards, an archaeogeneticist at the University of Huddersfield in England.
Tangled legacy
Little is known about the history of Ashkenazi Jews before they were expelled from the Mediterranean and settled in what is now Poland around the 12th century. On average, all Ashkenazi Jews are genetically as closely related to each other as fourth or fifth cousins, said Dr. Harry Ostrer, a pathology, pediatrics and genetics professor at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York and the author of "Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People" (Oxford University Press, 2012).
But depending on whether the lineage gets traced through maternal or paternal DNA or through the rest of the genome, researchers got very different answers for whether Ashkenazi originally came from Europe or the Near East.
Past research found that 50 percent to 80 percent of DNA from the Ashkenazi Y chromosome, which is used to trace the male lineage, originated in the Near East, Richards said. That supported a story wherein Jews came from Israel and largely eschewed intermarriage when they settled in Europe. [The Holy Land: 7 Amazing Archaeological Finds]
But historical documents tell a slightly different tale. Based on accounts such as those of Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, by the time of the destruction of the Second Temple in A.D. 70, as many as 6 million Jews were living in the Roman Empire, but outside Israel, mainly in Italy and Southern Europe. In contrast, only about 500,000 lived in Judea, said Ostrer, who was not involved in the new study.
"The major Jewish communities were outside Judea," Ostrer told LiveScience.
Maternal DNA
Richards and his colleagues analyzed mitochondrial DNA, which is contained in the cytoplasm of the egg and passed down only from the mother, from more than 3,500 people throughout the Near East, the Caucusus and Europe, including Ashkenazi Jews.
The team found that four founders were responsible for 40 percent of Ashkenazi mitochondrial DNA, and that all of these founders originated in Europe. The majority of the remaining people could be traced to other European lineages.
All told, more than 80 percent of the maternal lineages of Ashkenazi Jews could be traced to Europe, with only a few lineages originating in the Near East.
Virtually none came from the North Caucasus, located along the border between Europe and Asia between the Black and Caspian seas.
The finding should thoroughly debunk one of the most questionable, but still tenacious, hypotheses: that most Ashkenazi Jews can trace their roots to the mysterious Khazar Kingdom that flourished during the ninth century in the region between the Byzantine Empire and the Persian Empire, Richards and Ostrer said.
The genetics suggest many of the founding Ashkenazi women were actually converts from local European populations.
"The simplest explanation was that it was mainly women who converted and they married with men who'd come from the Near East," Richards told LiveScience.
Another possibility is that Jews actively converted both men and women among local populations at this time, although researchers would need more detailed study of paternal lineages to test that hypothesis, Richards said.
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
I wonder why do you guys bother discuss with a zionist without a leash...
No one stopped them in 2006, they used scorched earth in an attempt to stop rockets raining on them, but they didn't despite that they claimed for years that they have a huge target bank. Apparently they had shit, and they emptied their frustration on civilian areas in an attempt to demoralize the population just like Stalin and Hitler used to do ...
Remember that WAR is not only about destruction, WAR is about the WILL to keep fighting...
For the nth time, USSR suffered much more casualties than Germany but it was Germany who lost the war.

In 2006 nobody stopped them, it was open bar for them, despite their huge technological and military advantage they were not able to do anything of value, they lost huge number of armoured and tanks...
They even were unable to knock AlManar out of the air....

shou hal foss heyda yelli jeyeh yhadedna houn
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
I wonder why do you guys bother discuss with a zionist without a leash...
No one stopped them in 2006, they used scorched earth in an attempt to stop rockets raining on them, but they didn't despite that they claimed for years that they have a huge target bank. Apparently they had shit, and they emptied their frustration on civilian areas in an attempt to demoralize the population just like Stalin and Hitler used to do ...
Remember that WAR is not only about destruction, WAR is about the WILL to keep fighting...
For the nth time, USSR suffered much more casualties than Germany but it was Germany who lost the war.

In 2006 nobody stopped them, it was open bar for them, despite their huge technological and military advantage they were not able to do anything of value, they lost huge number of armoured and tanks...
They even were unable to knock AlManar out of the air....

shou hal foss heyda yelli jeyeh yhadedna houn
Bas parenthese zghire, u think the germans lost the war because they lost the will to fight?
 

JustLeb

Legendary Member
Orange Room Supporter
Bas parenthese zghire, u think the germans lost the war because they lost the will to fight?

this is not what I said, i said USSR suffered 22millions casualties, Germany 3 millions, yet Germany lost.
On another subject, WAR is not only about destruction but the will to fight... there are wars won without a single shot.
 

Iron Maiden

Paragon of Bacon
Orange Room Supporter
this is not what I said, i said USSR suffered 22millions casualties, Germany 3 millions, yet Germany lost.
On another subject, WAR is not only about destruction but the will to fight... there are wars won without a single shot.
Yea we’re gonna have to greatly disagree on this one
 
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